tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post135107938632302191..comments2024-02-21T08:52:55.878+00:00Comments on Your Freedom and Ours: Well, are they worth it?Helenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13799545178433498944noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-72760668978890239042009-08-21T17:49:36.000+01:002009-08-21T17:49:36.000+01:00That is the big question, Alfred. Having got ourse...That is the big question, Alfred. Having got ourselves through our own self-satisfaction and apathy into the situation we are in, what do we do? I look across the Pond at the growing tea party movement and salivate at the thought of something similar here. Sadly, we have a different system. However, it might be a good idea for people to turn out more at elections and vote for the smaller parties if they disagree with the big ones. Local elections do matter, yet people do not bother with them. I suppose they would if the councils raised their own money and had to account for it. Maybe I should have an open thread on this blog and see what people suggest. Of course, spreading information is hugely important. I look at the situation now and at the time of Maastricht when I first became involved and the difference is enormous. But the politicians have not moved and that is a big problem. Well, obviously. D'uh!Helennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-8394528175072581222009-08-20T16:49:14.000+01:002009-08-20T16:49:14.000+01:00What an excellent EURef post, thank you. I wish th...What an excellent EURef post, thank you. I wish that I had read it at the time instead of ignoring it, because I thought that it was only about the Jury Party. I apologise.<br /><br /><i>"Your representative owes you not his industry only, but his judgement; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.</i>"<br /><br />Yes. Instead of suggesting that he has to respond to the electorate's every whim (pure democracy - yuck), I expect that the person I vote for, sticks to his declared principles and his manifesto, except where he gives very good reasons not to. When at a local meeting, on the Lisbon treaty, that he arranged, 96% of the attendees were saying no to the Treaty, he told us that he had been voted in for 5 years and we had a chance to vote him out at the end of the period, if we didn't like his support for the Treaty. That has to be the opposite of pure democracy but I suppose it supports Burke's point. <br /><br />But your "<i>In the end it is not only our politicians who are failing in their duties but many of us as well – our duties as citizens of a constitutional democracy.</i>" begs a question. If we can only get involved once in 5 years how do we best discharge our duties?Alfrednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-53798449177703714692009-08-20T15:34:36.000+01:002009-08-20T15:34:36.000+01:00Sorry, Alfred, but I can't work out who he is,...Sorry, Alfred, but I can't work out who he is, as what you describe is common to all MPs, particularly those who have achieved a ministerial status. <br /><br />Let me reply to one or two points. I completely agree that it is idiotic of MPs to get involved in local council affairs and to try to trip the latter up if it happens to be led by another party. That is not what MPs are for but, of course, they do not do anything that they are supposed to do and, therefore, spend their time on local affairs. <br /><br />The point is that you do not vote for an MP to represent you personally because your interests may not be at one with what that MP, supposedly, perceives to be the country's interests or, even, with other constituents' interests. It is a difficult conundrum and I have written about it on various occasions as have many people, who are better versed in constitutional theory. No doubt, the subject will come up again. <br /><br />I was referring to Edmund Burke's Letter to the Bristol electors. I discussed it in my posting about the launch of the Jury Team (http://eureferendum2.blogspot.com/2009/03/amateur-hour.html). Burke said to the men (and they were all men at the time, though not all the men of Bristol had the right to vote):<br /><br />"His unbiased opinion, his mature judgment, his enlightened conscience, he ought not to sacrifice to you or to any set of men living."<br /><br />At the following election this became an issue because Burke believed, for many reasons, in free trade with Ireland, while the Bristol merchants did not.Helennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-2784120941068255102009-08-20T15:00:25.000+01:002009-08-20T15:00:25.000+01:00Helen, and there's me thinking I voted (I didn...Helen, and there's me thinking I voted (I didn't) him in to represent me. I have looked at the parliament web site before to try and work out what an MP is actually there to do, but have failed to find a definitive answer. I'd be grateful for a pointer. (Dare I own up to not having read Burke?)<br /><br />He works hard, ie puts many hours in, at <br /><br />1. being a Minister (Hard work and achievement are not the same thing IMO)<br />2. Interfering with the local council and acting like a councillor<br />3. Replying to constituents letters (but never answers the questions posed, in my experience, unless it is against the council. I have a feeling that he has a computer programme that turns out a standard response, including a few words from the constituent's own letter)<br />4. Trying to trip up the opposition. It is a marginal constituency<br /><br />If I say any more, then you will work out who he is, and I don't want this to become personal, as I think he represents a general malaise which is typical of the actions of a number of MPs who are also ministers.Alfrednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-82613080974634251832009-08-20T11:02:58.000+01:002009-08-20T11:02:58.000+01:00Thanks very much, Witterings from Witney.
Alfred...Thanks very much, Witterings from Witney. <br /><br />Alfred,<br />I am not convinced that the MP's job is to represent his constituents. What about the country? And which constituents are we talking about? Burke, whom everybody quotes all the time, would not have agreed with you. What does you MP actually do when he "works very hard"? I am intrigued.Helennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-72796621996272961022009-08-20T10:43:50.000+01:002009-08-20T10:43:50.000+01:00Frankly their current ₤60,000 approx seems very ge...Frankly their current ₤60,000 approx seems very generous to me. ₤45- 50,000 seems fairer to me considering the priceless prestige & aura of power that they get. Certainly no more than that what they get at present, & they should do at least a 5 day week to justify that - 11 months a year - including constituency surgeries. Perhaps one long research trip or retreat-type vacation could be Ok for the average MP, but it certainly should produce something of value debate or legislation-wise. However, late night sittings should be treated specially - paid either by an enjoyable free meal on Parliamentary premises, or a cash payment in lieu of it & worth no more than about ₤20. Oveertime? Only if they've worked it!<br /><br />I really don't see many of these people worth more than me, & I have never been paid that well!Agincourtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-48083311275443819402009-08-20T10:40:47.000+01:002009-08-20T10:40:47.000+01:00I like the questions raised not least of which is:...I like the questions raised not least of which is:<br />What is an MP worth? (That is different from that which an MP thinks he/she is worth)<br /><br />According to statistics.gov.uk, earnings up to April 2008 were (I don't think they have gone up much since that time):<br /><br />Average UK earnings up to April 2008 £27,092<br />Top ten percent of earners earned over £49,192<br /><br />Does an MP's job description put them in the top ten percent? <br /><br />There are other complications of course, eg government ministers. My MP works hard but spends very little time actually representing his constituents, so maybe his MP only pay should be less than the national average pay, as this is very much a part time job for him. He spends a miniscule amount of time on the jobs you mention <i>“legislate, hold the government to account, scrutinize the budget, take part in debates, find out about important political issues.”</i>Alfrednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-6548853449105597252009-08-20T09:22:59.000+01:002009-08-20T09:22:59.000+01:00I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. Parlia...I agree wholeheartedly with your comments. Parliament is a shadow of what it was with people who never ran anything before now running the country - into the ground! It is they who have to justify themselves to the people, NOT the other way round!Alan the Britnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-37399426616537022172009-08-20T08:53:34.000+01:002009-08-20T08:53:34.000+01:00Nice post Helen, well said - have linked to this.Nice post Helen, well said - have linked to this.WitteringsfromWitneynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-21843737138963520292009-08-20T04:09:58.000+01:002009-08-20T04:09:58.000+01:00I suggest they get paid pro rata, I read 80% of le...I suggest they get paid pro rata, I read 80% of legislation is direct from Brussels, give them 20% of the higher sum, should they earn it pay them the lot!chris edwardsnoreply@blogger.com