tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post8846215700010706421..comments2024-02-21T08:52:55.878+00:00Comments on Your Freedom and Ours: Well, I'm on Merkel's sideHelenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13799545178433498944noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-60731897066125663292012-02-20T20:39:57.242+00:002012-02-20T20:39:57.242+00:00IMO individually we are not complicit (depending o...IMO individually we are not complicit (depending on how we voted of course) but collectively we are. Were the electorate to vote in a violent totalitarian government, the electorate would be responsible. If a totalitarian government gains power via some other means, then it is still the collective moral responsibility of the people to overthrow them or, failing that, at the very least to resist; the only real limit on the power of government is the willingness of the people to tolerate them (which of course is why the right to bear arms is as important as the right to free speech).AKMnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-7631505306061413232012-02-17T14:04:12.041+00:002012-02-17T14:04:12.041+00:00Not so much refusing to pay taxes as not doing so ...Not so much refusing to pay taxes as not doing so while accepting all the benefits under the mistaken assumption that the Easter Bunny will keep providing the wherewithal.Helennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-66332996386438309072012-02-17T07:32:04.694+00:002012-02-17T07:32:04.694+00:00But look at us. We vote Labour or Tory election af...But look at us. We vote Labour or Tory election after election - does that make us complicit too? In Greece voting is compulsory and just like here voting is often on tribal lines. In a corrupt society like Greece it's hard to fight against something that's all pervading. In practice people do what they can to get by - very often by refusing to pay taxes to a system they reject.ProgContranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-50296872901327354532012-02-16T01:44:07.344+00:002012-02-16T01:44:07.344+00:00Could the anonymous guest sign his or her posting ...Could the anonymous guest sign his or her posting before demanding replies, please.Helennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-38679895877317246332012-02-16T00:55:49.723+00:002012-02-16T00:55:49.723+00:00No mention of Goldman Sachs in this article? Is He...No mention of Goldman Sachs in this article? Is Helen oblivious to their role in the crisis? Papademos is a traitor serving the interests of a foreign bank.<br /><br />Could Helen explain the eye-watering amounts of Quantitative Easing, aka Banker Welfare, handed out by Mediocre Mario of the ECB, without any conditions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-52447067268000838472012-02-15T14:14:01.525+00:002012-02-15T14:14:01.525+00:00Thank you for that comment, Nick. I am afraid with...Thank you for that comment, Nick. I am afraid with your greater knowledge of the situation you, nevertheless, confirm what I have thought and said for some time. The Greek people, who will undoubtedly suffer now, have not been supine victims, ProgContra. On the contrary. They thought they were benefiting from the situation. Nor are they demanding an exit from the euro or the EU at the moment.Helennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-47283835908322527402012-02-15T12:55:22.602+00:002012-02-15T12:55:22.602+00:00In respond to both Helen's post and ProgContra...In respond to both Helen's post and ProgContra's comment: you could argue that democracy died in Greece a long time ago ... bascially from the time that both main parties began a policy of stuffing the public sector with their supporters and doling out large amounts of public largess to interest groups. Was there ever an alternative scenario proposed for Greece in terms of growth based upon entrepreneurship and an efficient public service? No. And the fault is not the EU's. To ProgContra: the Greek people have voted for the same political class for nearly 40 years. They have voted for the politics of corruption and nepotism and inefficiency. Every election I can remember, 6 million Greeks have voted for both PASOK and ND. The population are not victims, they are part of the problem.<br /><br />NickAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-56536772597185404682012-02-15T08:20:13.011+00:002012-02-15T08:20:13.011+00:00You may be right. But it's also possible to ar...You may be right. But it's also possible to argue that Merkel is being cynical here. Sher has her eye on the domestic game and she needs to be seen to be tough on the Greeks. Make them suffer and squeal to assuage the punters back in Germany.<br /><br />And it's not the Greek people to blame for their political classes - anymore than it's our fault for generations of Euro-class politicians. The Greeks have suffered for generations from corruption, nepotism and a lack of economic development - the population are victims here.<br /><br />Far from being supine, Greek street politics have been voluble and active to a far greater extent than any other country in the EU. The population have fought back for longer than you give them credit for.ProgContranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-74570015718597684632012-02-14T23:32:55.741+00:002012-02-14T23:32:55.741+00:00Helen, or we talking democracy or dimocracy
Dimoc...Helen, or we talking democracy or dimocracy<br /><br />Dimocracy in Greece is alive and wellAnoneumousenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-64159440932965406902012-02-14T21:01:31.514+00:002012-02-14T21:01:31.514+00:00Nothing to do with nationhood. More about cold har...Nothing to do with nationhood. More about cold hard cash.Stuartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-24731370348422064012012-02-14T20:54:47.799+00:002012-02-14T20:54:47.799+00:00Oh yeah because we Anglos are sooo superior aren&#...Oh yeah because we Anglos are sooo superior aren't we! What do we have to learn from johnny foreigner? Anglosphere Dumbocracy uber alles.Adrian Butterworthnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-70019630852586783102012-02-14T12:46:04.995+00:002012-02-14T12:46:04.995+00:00Thank you for the comments and the links, Stephen....Thank you for the comments and the links, Stephen. I shall follow up the latter.Helennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057487038565855826.post-80864319477898216542012-02-14T01:31:53.319+00:002012-02-14T01:31:53.319+00:00To go on a tangent with respect to your opening se...To go on a tangent with respect to your opening sentiments, I always roll my eyes when Anglo-Canadian political spheres are told to emulate the Continent with respect to proportional representation, republicanism, electoral bicameralism, &c. What lessons do Greece, Italy, France, Spain, and Germany have to teach Westminster systems about freedom and democracy?<br /><br />With respect to the EU, the euro, and German guilt, I recommend Philipp Bagus’s <a href="http://mises.org/document/6045" rel="nofollow"><i>The Tragedy of the Euro</i></a>, particularly Chapter 5, ‘Why Germany Gave Up the Deutschmark’, in addition to this <a href="http://www.cobdencentre.org/2011/03/cobden-centre-radio-the-philipp-bagus-interview/" rel="nofollow">Cobden Centre interview</a> from March 2011 (second quarter of the dialogue).Stephen MacLeannoreply@blogger.com