Monday, July 9, 2012

A parallel universe

Just recently I complained on another forum that eurosceptic pronouncements (by the self-styled hard core members of that group) show that they live in a parallel universe. What is the point of starting from a point of view that is right (membership and, indeed, the existence of the EU is economically, politically and socially a bad thing) and then proceed in a direction that can only be described as demented in its refusal to acknowledge reality.

The Boss on EURef agrees with me and goes further: a number of hard-core eurosceptics, he thinks, are determined to fail. Why that might be so one can argue with many a reference to displacement activity and other such terms; at times as with the various campaigns for an IN/OUT referendum we might consider that they are being manipulated to somebody else's advantage.

Anyway, the Boss attacks them all, laying about him in his usual inimitable fashion. Read it if you have not done so yet.


  1. A big problem, of course, is that all this requires work and a commitment to research and analysing how to make the best of what is possible. Many on our side want simple answers, which sound OK around the dinner table or over a pint, but which in fact can easily be exploded by our opponents when the battle comes. The warning again in recent polling which shows a majority in favour of leaving the EU...but a majority in favour of staying in if membership and terms are "renogotiated". Like all those other "successful renegotiations" which later were proved to be fraudulent stitch up jobs for presentation purposes in a hysterical media? "Game set and match for Britain". I don't think I needed that last questionmark...

  2. Entirely agree with the Boss & Booker (and yourself) on this one. Why the hell should we do a dramatic leap through the window of the EU, with broken glass going everywhere and possibly a painful fall to ground-level outside, without trying the perfectly respectable looking door first?

    If Eurosceptics are going to pull together we have to challenge flawed ideas put forward by our side, if only to try to force our allies to confront those flaws.

  3. Damian, completely agree. The one thing we can never get, as you know, is sustained work on what we need to do to get out and actually manage afterwards in a way we would like to. The assumption that we can, as AKM puts it, leap dramatically through the window and then just flourish spontaneously is absolute moonshine and very harmful to the cause. Btw the most recent poll result I saw was again 48% would vote to get out. That is not even near to being enough.

  4. ...and of course it is a commitment to this work and to some intellectual hinterland which would give us a chance to win the day and move the debate in our direction. From this work would flow the real arguments and the rebuttals of the absurd claims of the other side...but it seems to often that many on our side believe that emotion, basic arguments and gut feeling will win the day. Against a heavily funded scare machine, these 'qualities' will undoubtedly fail and could set us back even further, by allowing the other side to bounce us into further union and less control.